Welcome to the board

I believe the Phu Quoc and TRD are the same dog. TRD look a little different because they have been selectively bred for a lot longer, if the Phu Quoc has even been selctively bred at all. My thinking is, genetic research has shown evidence of common ancestry between TRD and Rhodesian. If TRD made it to Africa, I'm sure they made it to an island neighboring Thailand easily.

I also think this breed is supposed to be slightly cow hocked/toed out being a primitive type. If you look at wolves, dingoes, coyotes, all the wild canines are cow hocked/toed out. There has to be a reason nature decided wild dogs should be cow hocked/toed out. I think it lends to the single track gait. When they are moving faster than a walk they step the back feet directly into the print from their front feet. It is thought by biologists that when covering ground a single tracking gait is more efficient, especially in snow or mud.

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Lorrie Breen
My sunshine doesn't come from the skies,
It comes from the love shining in my dog's eyes.
www.ThailandRidgebacks.com

I have to disgaree on the toes out lending to a single track gait. I once assisted a veterinarian friend of mine with a seminar on canine sports injuries which included a large section on gaits and proper movement (if one has a messed up gait, it lends itself to more injury was the premis of that section). I have videos we did in slow motion of a cattle dog and a collie to demo the single track as they pick up speed - the cattle dog - who is kind of bowed in front, was easier to demo with for the front view. To single track properly, a dog has to be the proper length too.. if they're too long, their hind end has to swing sideways (crabbing). It was very interesting 'reasearch' watching these dogs on video. I can't find the ones where I slowed them down.. but have attached the front and rear views of the cattle dog for your viewing pleasure

Okay.. scratch that - my video files must be too large - they're not attaching. If you'd like to see 'em.. shoot me a PM with your email and I'll send them over!

Once I have a moment, I'm going to try and capture Sunee's fronts as she moves. I'm interested to see what it looks like on video when I can slow it down!

Side note: if you want to see what your own dog does, get their feet in corn startch and have them gait across a dark solid background. You will see in the photo below, the dog we used has a single line with two steps in each corn starch step!

I can put the videos up on my server and link them here.

_________________
Lorrie Breen
My sunshine doesn't come from the skies,
It comes from the love shining in my dog's eyes.
www.ThailandRidgebacks.com

Good deal! Sending them your way!

Couldn't send them your way.. they were too large for my email to send out. BUT.. ever fear!! YouTube took them just fine. There are three:

Front View; Normal Speed - - You will see her moving inline to sigle track (and also see crabbing where she goes to one side with her rear since her hind would hit her fronts)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgwj-zqTN1k


Rear View; Normal Speed - - same as above, but from behind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPMs7VJtffk


Front View; Slow motion - - you will see she starts very wide, then we increase speed on the treadmill and her footfalls move closer to center...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Riee9wuoanw

Now... can I get Sunee to run on the treadmill while I film her? We shall see!

Looking around for pictures of 'fronts' of wolves, coyotes, etc.. ran into the following site. The head on pictures aren't there, but I did notice that 99% of them do not have big broad chests, just like our TRD. This would account *somewhat* for the fronts being out, but their fronts are not early as bad as what we see in TRD, at least here in the U.S. Big burly chests would make them WAY to slow to hunt anything, the chest would just get in the way!

Anywho.. found it interesting enough to share

PICTURES OF VARIOUS WOLVES

A thought...

Most of the US TRD come from a certain source. Within this group are a concentration of blues.

These dogs have the characteristic straight shoulders and upper arm assemblies placed too far forward on the chest, loose elbows, no forechest, narrow chests, and weak front pasterns that that toe outward. Also seen are very straight rear angulation that tends to make the dogs stand high in the rear.

I fear that these type of TRD are assumed to be a real "type", as people in the US have mainly them to observe. By real type I mean to say that people seem to be assuming this is correct and preferred when instead, this type is the result of breeding without understanding or concern over structure.

If you don't breed for structural improvement, you won't get any.

Many of the blues in EU have correct fronts without beefing them up. They are still a moderate dog, but have shoulder assemblies put on correctly, straight fronts and strong pasterns.

We need to consciously breed away from this (and we've recently seen a few examples of this in rescues);



And recently in a fawn red offering ( I've never seen so extreme an example, this pup is nearly deformed, if not so);



All this being said, I totally get what your saying Regal Thai



However, it may be a bit of a stretch to apply this to the TRD, as the breeds structural faults seem to me to be more as result of willy nilly breeding than natural selection. None of these structural faults make for efficient movement in these TRD and I dare say that these dogs will break down over time, especially if they are in athletic competitions or rigorous exercise regimens. Just because they do it when asked doesn't mean their structure will stand up over time. Good structure isn't just about pretty dogs or conformation showing, its about the total dog and its well being over a lifetime.

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If your dog is fat, you're not getting enough exercise. ~Author Unknown

Jessica,

I loved the wolf/wild canine photos. Beautiful animals they all are!

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If your dog is fat, you're not getting enough exercise. ~Author Unknown

Jessica,

That cattle dog video was interesting. As she toes in, she is crossing over in front. It looks like her elbows are out and her wrists turn in too much as she accelerates. Her rear movement looked fine. I didn't see any crabbing but I'd have to see her side movement for that.

A great great great video to understand movement is titled

A Key To Movement by Karen G. Armistead

It is long and repititious, but well worth the study. (You'll like that Afgan Hounds are used).

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If your dog is fat, you're not getting enough exercise. ~Author Unknown

Oh I'm not saying what we are seeing here is correct. Many are well over the 25ish degrees I would think would be max for toe out without twisting. The stop sign cut out is hilarious!

_________________
Lorrie Breen
My sunshine doesn't come from the skies,
It comes from the love shining in my dog's eyes.
www.ThailandRidgebacks.com

Well said Ann!
Good structure isn't just about pretty dogs or conformation showing, its about the total dog and its well being over a lifetime.

I would like seeing single tracking in our breed in the future!!
The current parallel tracking (terrier gait) are absolute incorrect in our standard, it cannot achieve balance for our current breed size!! although our breed have straight shoulder, they may not gait as close as the centerline, but certainly not parallel tracking!